*** Visual IRC '97 channel #FFW log, created 8/1/00 10:28:20 AM

 (Pre-meeting banter deleted...)

*** Mode change [+o innov8cs] on channel #ffw by .southwell.
<.BrianL.>   Okay, now we have to get serious.  Anyone else coming?
<.innov8cs.>   Hopefully Julian
<.BrianL.>   Per and Peter are not to appear, correct.
[.Southwell.]   That is correct sir.  Unless Per can find a web-based interface to IRC.
<.innov8cs.>   Just got email from Julian, should be here soon
<.BrianL.>   Should we get started?  Or wait?  And who is recording the session?
*** .Southwell. has changed the topic on #ffw to "FFW Board Meeting - Meeting Schedule"
[.Southwell.]   I'm recording, supposedly, but maybe someone should take a backup just in case.
<.innov8cs.>   I am, but i'm verifying right now
<.BrianL.>   I vote we meet once a week for the next two weeks, then review atthat time.
<.innov8cs.>   Should we even try to two meetings a week at first?
<.BrianL.>   Schedules may be tough - for those that actually work.
[.Southwell.]   I don't think we should schedule that many...
<.innov8cs.>   Or sleep
[.Southwell.]   Call them if we need them, but otherwise have bi-weekly standing meetings?
<.innov8cs.>   OK then, I second one meeting a week for two weeks
<.innov8cs.>   Also agreed
<.BrianL.>   Geoff, how can you agree to both?  They are different.
<.dcleary.>   Every two weeks is fine by me, as long as they are not on Thursday or Friday
[.Southwell.]   On the 15th and 29th of August?
<.BrianL.>   Wednesday is a good day for me.
<.innov8cs.>   I'm agreeing to once a week for two weeks then once every other week there after
<.innov8cs.>   15th and 29th OK
[.Southwell.]   How about 16th, 23rd, and every two weeks thereafter on Wednesdays?
[.Southwell.]   Dave's not saying much....
<.BrianL.>   The 16th and 23rd work better for me.
 * .BrianL. slaps dcleary around a bit with a large trout
<.dcleary.>   That is fine.
<.innov8cs.>   Peter just sent email saying he's downloading mirc.  Must have been confusion about the time
[.Southwell.]   We'll delay the vote on this until Peter comes in.
<.innov8cs.>   David - agreein to the meeting times, or agreeing to be beaten with a large flying fish?
<.BrianL.>   So, we are saying our next meeting on the 16th of August at 11:30am EST, then the 23rd, same time?
<.innov8cs.>   Yes
[.Southwell.]   The time works fine for me.
<.dcleary.>   Meeting times. I do not know you well enough to do the fish.
<.innov8cs.>   This is going to produce a great transcript for the massed to view ;-)
[.Southwell.]   At least it's not on video...
<.BrianL.>   Should we move on and get agreement from the others about the time/dates of meeting later?]
<.dcleary.>   Yes
<.innov8cs.>   OK by me
[.Southwell.]   We could talk about features now.
<.BrianL.>   Only if you change the topic first.
[.Southwell.]   I wish Per could be here...
<.BrianL.>   Has everyone reviewed the existing features?
<.innov8cs.>   Yes, but not in detail
[.Southwell.]   Has everyone tried FFW?
[.Southwell.]   Be honest...
<.innov8cs.>   Yes
<.BrianL.>   Sure.
<.dcleary.>   No. But I'm tapped out until 9.1b feature freeze. I even gave up my trip to Microsoft this week.
<.innov8cs.>   No problem  -  what do you want to talk about Brian?
[.Southwell.]   I think that one change I need to make to the DB connection stuff is 
[.Southwell.]   to change it to have the reconnection parameters in the .ini file
[.Southwell.]   instead of a procedure.
[.Southwell.]   Can anyone think of any reason why that wouldn't be good?
<.innov8cs.>   I haven't thought about it enough, but I do want to make suggestions there.  I think the best is to make a SUPER and then have the method be interchangeable
<.BrianL.>   I agree on that feature.
<.BrianL.>   I'll be trying to do the same with the AppServer connection thing.
<.innov8cs.>   One SUPER reads an INI, one version of the SUPER is hard coded, a third gets info from a database record, another an XML file, etc.
<.innov8cs.>   Good
<.BrianL.>   Geoff, can you write up spec on that.
[.Southwell.]   I'm not following very well.  I'm not too familiar with supers.  Tried them once and wasn't happy about the inheritance order.
[.Southwell.]   Hi Julian.
<.BrianL.>   As we are already using TEMP-TABLEs for lots of stuff, should be not continue with that?
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - yes I can write it up, Steve - I think we need to bruch up on it
[.Southwell.]   We were just discussing the DB reconnection procedures in FFw.
<.jmls.>   [all] Ok. Thanks for that. Sorry for the delay - had difficulty getting on to IRC
[.Southwell.]   I guess one concern I have is that you're gonna make this 3.x only by using Supers.
<.BrianL.>   Geoff, I am also not clear on what you are talking about.  The SUPER to which procedure?
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - TT could be one method, I'll write up something that talks about a philopsphy to allow alternatives
<.jmls.>   what does +v mean ?
[.Southwell.]   You can talk...
<.BrianL.>   Geoff, I think TTs are the perferred method.  That is what Progress switched to for the get-field stuff from 2 to 3.
<.jmls.>   oh. Suppose I need to set up my mike then :)
<.innov8cs.>   All - I've been working with Hansdip Bindra on a kind of SUPER manager that allows such control, the SUPER in this case would be the "connection" manager
<.dcleary.>   FYI. WebSpeed 2.x is retiring end of next year.
[.Southwell.]   Just in time for the bugs to be worked out of V3!  ;)
<.BrianL.>   Heard that.  End of NEXT year.  Kind of far off isn't it?
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - I have no problems with TT's, it should be a supported method.  I want to introduce the way to support extensible methods.
<.dcleary.>   2001. Sorry for the confusion.
<.BrianL.>   Steve, do you want to review for Julian, so he can know about the meeting schedule.
[.Southwell.]   Yeah lets do that...
[.Southwell.]   Julian, we were discussing a meeting schedule...
<.jmls.>   uh huh
[.Southwell.]   and came up with the idea that we could meet on 
[.Southwell.]   Aug 16th and Aug 23rd
[.Southwell.]   at 11:30 am US Eastern time
[.Southwell.]   Then every other following Wednesday after that
<.innov8cs.>   Private email from Peter again, he's on Dal net, but forgot the password
[.Southwell.]   Does that sound like it would work for you?
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - does this time work for you?  The time is OK for us Yanks, but what about you?
<.jmls.>   Seems fair enough to me. I'll try & book them in the calendar. Can't guarantee it every time though.
[.Southwell.]   That's fine.
[.Southwell.]   BTW, how many people, at a minimum, should we have to consider it a quorum?
[.Southwell.]   I say 5.
<.BrianL.>   Four
<.jmls.>   Who's the masked man ? :)
<.innov8cs.>   We should have an odd number if we reamin leaderless
<.innov8cs.>   Probably Peter
 * .BrianL. slaps Guest61657 around a bit with a large trout
<.Guest61657.>   Hi guys. My first attempt today. The server gave me the alias.
<.jmls.>   Ha Ha
[.Southwell.]   Hi Peter.
<.jmls.>   Hi Peter
[.Southwell.]   You can change your nick by doing /nick pvandam or something.
<.innov8cs.>   Peter - do /nick PetervD
<.Guest61657.>   Hi Julian. How's the baby?
*** .Guest61657. is now known as .prvdam.
<.jmls.>   Peter - Sleeping at day, awake at night. :(
<.innov8cs.>   Guys - we can chat later, back to the business at hand
<.prvdam.>   That's when you do most of your work anyway, isn't it?
[.Southwell.]   Anyhow, we were just discussing meeting schedules for the future...
<.innov8cs.>   Steve - do you want to replay that meeting schedule again
[.Southwell.]   Yes, here goes...
[.Southwell.]     File........: fflogin.html
[.Southwell.]     Version.....: 1.0 
[.Southwell.]     Description : Login screen
[.Southwell.]     Input Param : 
[.Southwell.]     Output Param: 
[.Southwell.]     Author......: S.E. Southwell - United Systems, Inc. (770) 449-9696
[.Southwell.]     Copyright...: FreeFramework 2000  - http://www.freeframework.org
[.Southwell.]     Created.....: 6/27/2000
[.Southwell.]    *-----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
[.Southwell.]    &GLOBAL-DEFINE web-file fflogin
[.Southwell.]    We thought we could meet on Aug 16th and 23rd
<.jmls.>   Ok, I've booked the meetings. Every wednesday at 16:30 GMT until 2004 ...
[.Southwell.]   Oops...
[.Southwell.]   Sorry.  I'll try again.
<.jmls.>   Que?
[.Southwell.]   We would like to meet the next two Wednesdays - Aug 16th and 23rd.
[.Southwell.]   Then after that on every other wednesday - in other words, every two weeks.
[.Southwell.]   At 11:30 US Eastern time.
<.jmls.>   Oh, damn. Back to the scheduler...
<.prvdam.>   Wednesday is fine by me except for those two - going on a holliday.
[.Southwell.]   We can meet more often if a specific need arises.
[.Southwell.]   You'll be gone the first two?
<.prvdam.>   Yes.
[.Southwell.]   BTW, should we allow a board member to give a proxy to another member?
[.Southwell.]   For instance I go away, and give Brian my vote?
<.prvdam.>   This week I am still here. Until Monday.
<.innov8cs.>   Up to the individual, I'm OK with it
<.BrianL.>   Sounds fair.  As long as there is a process for it.
<.prvdam.>   We will rarely be all there, the ones that are missing miss out on their votes AFAIC.
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - how about an email on the private FFW list as the process
<.BrianL.>   Acceptable.
[.Southwell.]   I move that we allow proxies as long as the proxy granter sends an email to the private Board list.
<.jmls.>   Acceptable
[.Southwell.]   Second?
<.dcleary.>   As long as we have a reasonable quorum, proxies are good.
<.prvdam.>   OK
<.innov8cs.>   Done
[.Southwell.]   Was that a vote?
<.innov8cs.>   Yes
<.jmls.>   Is there any way of saving the transcripts of the meetings from the start and emailing them / making them available to the board members ?
[.Southwell.]   OK, we'll consider that one passed.  Proxies allowed with advance notice.
<.dcleary.>   You should ask for any objections.
[.Southwell.]   Yes, we're logging them right now.
[.Southwell.]   Oh yeah, any objections?
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - yes we're already doing that
<.jmls.>   How would I get hold of the start of this meeting, then ?
<.innov8cs.>   No objections
<.innov8cs.>   Julian we'll email it later
<.jmls.>   Ah. Good.
<.prvdam.>   No objections. If you don't proxy and are not there you don't have a vot.
[.Southwell.]   OK, so does everyone want to vote on the schedule?
[.Southwell.]   I vote yes, as is.
<.jmls.>   Ok for me.
<.BrianL.>   Yea.
<.prvdam.>   I still did not see the schedule repost.
<.innov8cs.>   Ok for me but I think Peter can't make it
[.Southwell.]   I'm sorry...  Here goes again.
[.Southwell.]   Wed, Aug 16th, and Aug 23rd. at 11:30 AM Eastern time
[.Southwell.]   Then every other wednesday after that same time.
<.BrianL.>   Is that 4:30GMT or 5:30?
<.jmls.>   Currently 4:30 GMT
<.innov8cs.>   And 5:30 for Peter?
<.jmls.>   I guess
<.prvdam.>   Sorry - misunderstanding - I will miss the first two, after that no problem.
<.jmls.>   But then, the english are not very good at timekeeping ..
[.Southwell.]   I'll find out for sure and post it later.
<.innov8cs.>   Do we want to reschedule for Peter, or let it ride?
<.prvdam.>   Let is ride - as I said before, we will rarely all make it always.
<.jmls.>   let it ride - Peter will be on holiday ...
<.innov8cs.>   OK, I think its set then
[.Southwell.]   The schedule passes.
<.prvdam.>   Mail me the transacripts.
<.innov8cs.>   Any more organizational issues?
[.Southwell.]   OK.  Will do.
[.Southwell.]   How's this format working for everyone?
<.dcleary.>   Do we have a chair?
<.jmls.>   It's a bit confusing, but I'll certainly get used to it.
<.BrianL.>   Yea.
<.innov8cs.>   No chair - we avoid another ellection that way ;-)
[.Southwell.]   That's a good question.  Do we need to have a Chairman or Facilitator of some sort?
<.dcleary.>   Someone needs to run things with some notion of impartiality.
[.Southwell.]   I think with this small of a group it's probably unnecessary.
<.innov8cs.>   How about if we need a "facilitator" we take turns at each meeting
[.Southwell.]   We could rotate the facilitator alphabetically.
<.jmls.>   How about making the "facilitator" the person who first joins the channel ? Then he/she (?) would be responsible for the transcript as well
<.innov8cs.>   Otherwise we seem to be staying on topic and moving along this way without.
[.Southwell.]   I guess that's a good realistic way of doing it.
<.dcleary.>   We also need an agenda before the meeting.
[.Southwell.]   Agreed.
<.jmls.>   That sould be emailed the day (?) before
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - I think we should all keep transcripts just in case.  First one on may mean some of us do it all the time
<.BrianL.>   Agreed.
<.prvdam.>   That was my confusion - schedule and agenda
[.Southwell.]   We can email the private list the agenda the day before.
<.innov8cs.>   Email the agenda more than one day before - we may want to do a little email about the agenda ahead of time
<.prvdam.>   Don't we have an agenda today?
<.jmls.>   Geoff - I agree with you, but the person who first gets on gets all the transcript ? For example, I don't have the beginning of this session
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - agreed on the transcript, I was also talking about "facilitator".  Some one else should do that
<.jmls.>   oh, ok
[.Southwell.]   Julian, I just emailed you the transcript.
<.innov8cs.>   How about first one on is "secretery", and take turns by alpha for facilitator
[.Southwell.]   I nominate Geoff for the first facilitator.
<.jmls.>   Steve - thanks. Got it
<.jmls.>   Seconded
[.Southwell.]   Agreed with Geoff about secretary and faciliator
<.prvdam.>   Alphabetically by first name from here?
[.Southwell.]   By last name, I would think
<.prvdam.>   That would be a 'D' in my case, to avoid confusion
<.innov8cs.>   Also agree, I have no problem with being first.  But by the way, Steve has more of the transcript as first on
[.Southwell.]   Thanks for that.
<.jmls.>   What happens if someone is nomimated before, but then can't attend ? Perhaps the "facilitator" should be nominated from the list of attendees
[.Southwell.]   Or just the next person in the list, to avoid having to have an election.
<.jmls.>   Yup. I agree with that
<.innov8cs.>   OK - Brian and David we need to hear from you, the rest seem to be in agreement about "facilitator" and transcripts
<.BrianL.>   Okay, someone facilitate then.  We need to get a clear time frame for the meetings also.  This could go on indefinately.  I'm sure David wants to get back to making 9.1b work.
<.prvdam.>   Steve: agreed, let's move on now
[.Southwell.]   The motion passes - 
<.jmls.>   with no objections :)
<.dcleary.>   If I disagree, I'll let you know.
[.Southwell.]   I'll write it into some bylaws.
<.innov8cs.>   Also agreed. that the facilitoar's job -  got it Dave
[.Southwell.]   Timeframe:
<.innov8cs.>   Next on the agenda was FFW features
[.Southwell.]   No more than 1.5 hours?
<.BrianL.>   Certainly
<.prvdam.>   1.5 hours is way too much
<.jmls.>   Oh yes. Don't forget that us foreigners are on dialup
[.Southwell.]   Good point.
<.prvdam.>   Not on dialup here but it is still way too long
<.innov8cs.>   For the first one or two it may be longer than normal.  At least 45 min for these first ones
[.Southwell.]   We've been going an hour already and are on the first topic.
<.innov8cs.>   Let's play this by ear and move on
<.prvdam.>   So I did not miss much then
<.innov8cs.>   FFW Featers -----
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - you were talking before
<.BrianL.>   Before?
[.Southwell.]   About the tt's
<.innov8cs.>   Before Peter and Julian got here
<.BrianL.>   Yes.  Geoff was going off on SUPERs and I was responding to Steve's question about putting the
<.BrianL.>   DB connection parameters into the tt-dbset TEMP-TABLE.
<.BrianL.>   I agreed that having a pair entry in the INI file
<.BrianL.>   with DB name and connection info something like
<.BrianL.>   sports|-db sports -H progress -S someport
<.BrianL.>   then breaking on the DB name and connection string
<.BrianL.>   was a good idea, and that I was playing with the same idea
<.BrianL.>   for the AppServer auto-connect routine.
<.prvdam.>   I suggested that to Steve as well but got no response.
<.prvdam.>   I did not like the db connect in a program.
<.jmls.>   Why not define the parameters as XML, then the file could be parsed accordingly, and enhancements added later without breaking things
<.innov8cs.>   Should the whole INI be trnasfered to XML?
<.BrianL.>   That would involve changing the current loading routine and INI system entirely.
<.prvdam.>   The currunt format supports that as well and reads and writes easier
<.BrianL.>   Do we want to start that now?
[.Southwell.]   Peter, didn't I write you back about that?
<.prvdam.>   Steve: no
[.Southwell.]   Sorry.  I agreed with you Peter.
[.Southwell.]   About XML:
[.Southwell.]   Sounds cool, but would be very involved.
[.Southwell.]   Not sure if it could be commented as easily
[.Southwell.]   The .ini file has to be very easy and well documented,
[.Southwell.]   or come with a GUI component to write it.
[.Southwell.]   One option was to try and edit the
<.dcleary.>   XML doesn't make sense in all cases. If you need to wtite a parser, then it makes sense for an ini file. Otherwise, I do not know what it would add since the ini file parser is already written.
[.Southwell.]   ubroker.properties file
<.prvdam.>   INI file is all we need and everybody can read and write also on CHUI
<.BrianL.>   At this time I think that converting the INI file to another format
<.innov8cs.>   I think that's Brian's concerns - may I suggest we continue with INI, with an eye towards other methods when the SUPER' idea is discussed
<.BrianL.>   would delay getting any work done at all.
[.Southwell.]   .ini it is.
[.Southwell.]   And I would like to make the .ini extensible
<.jmls.>   Is the ini file parser a "black box" approach ? If so, then we can convert to any other format at a later stage without breaking things
[.Southwell.]   by making a name=value temp-table
<.BrianL.>   Julian, that is pretty much the case.
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - yes that's the idea, I'm talking about further making the black boxes extensible with SUPER's
[.Southwell.]   Julian:  In a way it is...  It just reads things into temp-tables, and a couple of shared variables.
<.BrianL.>   Which is why I don't thinkg we need to do it now.
<.innov8cs.>   All agreed?
<.prvdam.>   .ini it is
<.jmls.>   Ok. as long as it a replacable object
<.innov8cs.>   Next feature item or are we done?
<.BrianL.>   Next please.
[.Southwell.]   Per's plus-pack
<.prvdam.>   PROPATH
<.jmls.>   next
<.jmls.>   Steve wins ..
<.BrianL.>   Which part?
[.Southwell.]   To be honest, I haven't been through it all that well...
<.innov8cs.>   OK, Plus Pack then PROPATH - Steve -----
<.jmls.>   gotta take a little trip.. be a couple of minutes
[.Southwell.]   But...
[.Southwell.]   He's certainly got a following
[.Southwell.]   And he's already done the work
[.Southwell.]   He's got a cool name.
<.BrianL.>   It has some nice things, but needs lots of cleaning up and documenting.
<.prvdam.>   Please explain Per's plus pack a little to me while Julian is gone
[.Southwell.]   We should rename our version of the Workshop to FFW plus-pack.
[.Southwell.]   Brian, go ahead.
<.BrianL.>   Well, I like the DB features (it includes SEQUENCES!)
<.BrianL.>   but it shows everything all at once which can be a pain for large DBs
<.prvdam.>   Where do I get Per's plus pack?
[.Southwell.]   digre.com
<.BrianL.>   So I like it, but would want something tighter.
<.BrianL.>   I also like the ability to see  the DEBUG listing, XREF, etc.  Those are pretty good.
<.BrianL.>   But how should we show them.  They don't follow the style we already have in FFW.
[.Southwell.]   What I think would be good...
<.BrianL.>   Then there is the RCS module which is nice but HARD to use.
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - so let's go through it closer and come up with a list of where we want to extend it, where the documentation is needed and present that back to Per
<.jmls.>   Ok I'm back
<.BrianL.>   Fine.  I mean, don't get me wrong.
[.Southwell.]   Is if we try to get Per to move his plus-pack closer
[.Southwell.]   to FFW
<.BrianL.>   It adds great value.  It is a good thing.
[.Southwell.]   instead of FFW evloving to compete with Plus-pack
<.BrianL.>   But I think we need to pick the pieces we need and make them work rather then just drop it in.
[.Southwell.]   Of course it's gonna be his choice.
[.Southwell.]   Sure, Agreed.
<.BrianL.>   Yes.  Of course.
[.Southwell.]   It would be the same submission process as everything.
<.BrianL.>   Could we say now that we will try to use
<.BrianL.>   parts of the plus-pack to fill in
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - True. let's come up with the specifics of what we want to include, and in some cases maybe what we want to merge or base new code on
<.BrianL.>   some of the FFW parts that are not yet finished,
<.BrianL.>   with the permission of Per, of course.
[.Southwell.]   I move to table this for now and come back to it next week.
[.Southwell.]   with more info.
[.Southwell.]   And we can move on to the Propath issue.
<.jmls.>   I'm going to have to get better grips with this pluspak. Move to next week.
<.BrianL.>   Accepted.
<.BrianL.>   What PROPATH issue?
[.Southwell.]   That Peter brought up.
<.jmls.>   Go Peter
<.prvdam.>   I'll look into pluspak coming week and issue my comments before the next meeting
<.prvdam.>   OK PROPATH: how does everybody set it?
[.Southwell.]   You mean FFW?
[.Southwell.]   In the .ini file.
<.prvdam.>   Checking...
<.BrianL.>   Yes, it works hand in hand with the 'Allowable' directories list, correct Steve?
[.Southwell.]   Yep, the "WebRunPath"
<.innov8cs.>   If you will, I'd like to say a bit on the process first
<.innov8cs.>   WAIT
<.innov8cs.>   WAIT
<.innov8cs.>   I wanted to say about the submission process for a second ---
<.innov8cs.>   We've got only one or two so we can handle them without much problem
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - whay don't you lead the investigation for the Plus Pak like Steve did with my thing
<.innov8cs.>   Write up a little thing for us to talk about next time and then in the mean time we'll all become more familiar with the Plus Pak on our own.
<.BrianL.>   Task accepted.
<.prvdam.>   PROPATH: there is a fixed directory structure in FFW, right?
<.innov8cs.>   OK -  Now on to the PROPATH thing now, Peter ......
[.Southwell.]   Peter:  There is a directory structure
[.Southwell.]   which has the /robust and /robust/webtools
[.Southwell.]   as well as /web/objects
<.prvdam.>   So all we need to know is the root dir, right?
[.Southwell.]   I'm not attached to keeping those, if someone has a better plan.
<.innov8cs.>   Still there Peter?  Any more questions?
[.Southwell.]   I don't know if I would put the root in the propath.
<.innov8cs.>   If there's silence we'll move on.....
[.Southwell.]   Geoff, he's talking.
<.prvdam.>   No, what I mean is we don't need to put all the FFW dirs in the .ini file
<.prvdam.>   That makes it more difficult to move it around
[.Southwell.]   The reason I've got specific ones 
<.BrianL.>   Peter, what are you suggesting.
<.innov8cs.>   How about one master FFW directory with those others underneath and only the path to the master FFW directory?
[.Southwell.]   is that there are some directories where you wouldn't want to run programs at all.
<.prvdam.>   The first program started knows it's own dir, adds that and the subdirs to PROPATH
[.Southwell.]   Hmmm.  That's a decent idea.
<.prvdam.>   I've done it that way for years with toolsets
<.BrianL.>   With the ability to have an exclusion list?
<.jmls.>   Yup. I agree with Peter. We've been doing that way as well.
<.innov8cs.>   Good
<.prvdam.>   Exclusion list for FFW itself?
[.Southwell.]   I guess really the WebRunPath serves that purpose.
<.prvdam.>   Fill me in on WebRunPath
<.BrianL.>   Sorry, I thought we were talking about the App in general.
[.Southwell.]   I just want to be extra careful about security.
[.Southwell.]   WebRunPath is like Propath, except
<.innov8cs.>   I'm away for two secs
[.Southwell.]   that it contains directories or filespecs of programs
[.Southwell.]   that can be run from a URL.
[.Southwell.]   For instance, you may have .p files
[.Southwell.]   that are in your propath
[.Southwell.]   but you don't want webusers running them directly.
[.Southwell.]   Like background BL.
<.prvdam.>   Understood. I am talking about setting up the FFW PROPATH itself
<.prvdam.>   without editing the .ini file
[.Southwell.]   I know.  I was addressing Brian's question about an exclusion list.
[.Southwell.]   There is only one problem.
[.Southwell.]   Since we override the web-disp.p, we need to at least have our own version in the working directory.
[.Southwell.]   And it's called by web/objects/web-disp.p
<.BrianL.>   I accept Peter's idea.  As for the exclusion list, it may be an option to give the users.  If you have like 80 directories and only 1 does not allow access, then you slow the App down with the long list.
[.Southwell.]   So in our working directory we need /web/objects/webdisp.p
<.prvdam.>   If you start FFW what PROPAHT do you need to set minimum?
<.innov8cs.>   We're dragging on time wise - I don't think we're going to come to a conclusion on this.  I'd like to table other issues and then talk just about the article and forming a business committee
<.prvdam.>   I'll look into it and work something out
<.jmls.>   Could you not define a method/call/function that determines whether or not a .p can be run from a URL ? By checking PROGRAM-NAME or something like that ?
<.innov8cs.>   How about continuing the PROPATH via the private list?
[.Southwell.]   I agree with you Geoff.  Julian, that's what WebRunPath does right now.
<.innov8cs.>   If we're ready to move on then , lets talk about forming the business committee
[.Southwell.]   Yeah, what are we gonna do about that?
<.prvdam.>   What's the business committee?
*** .Southwell. has changed the topic on #ffw to "FFW Board Meeting - Business Committee"
[.Southwell.]   Legal / Financial issues
[.Southwell.]   Do we need to incorporate?
<.innov8cs.>   Peter - we talked about forming a spearate committe to decide on incorporating, looking in the the license, etc
<.BrianL.>   David, find anything out about the license issue?
<.innov8cs.>   I don't think we're going to be able to go into the details of both issues now, they're large topcis.  That's the idea behind a separate committee
<.innov8cs.>   1.  Do we form such a committee  2. Who's on it    3.  What responsibilites do we give it
<.dcleary.>   I didn't want to push it right now without an entity that would be licensed.
<.BrianL.>   Fine.  I say we appoint a committe to review whether we should incorporate (or whatever) and dig into license problems.
<.dcleary.>   I think we should incorporate.
<.BrianL.>   David, understood.  Again, I say we get the committe to decide something on the INC issue by the end of August
<.prvdam.>   Make David chairman
<.jmls.>   I think that this should probably be handled by you fine fellows over in the States. I've no idea why we need to "incorporate", possibly coz I don't understand
<.BrianL.>   Then 9.1b will never be finished.
<.jmls.>   Ha!
<.prvdam.>   I checked the dictionary about 'incorporate' - that's all I understand
<.innov8cs.>   How about we do a committee, we give it only the issues of incorporation and license.  If there are more issues we can assign them later
[.Southwell.]   I move that we form a committee with at least 1 board member and at least 2 non board members.
<.dcleary.>   I guess I can be chairman, provided others have some knowledge about these issues.
<.innov8cs.>   For the Euro guys, incorporate = form a legal business entity
<.jmls.>   I'm afraid I'm totally in the dark on this one.
<.prvdam.>   Is that an international legal entity?
<.BrianL.>   Could we make it an off-shore entity and make things really sleezy looking?
<.prvdam.>   Do we really need to get into that stuff?
<.jmls.>   Geoff - you mean an actual company ? In the UK, this costs around £2000 per year for accountancy requirements etc
<.innov8cs.>   David - I said to Steve before, Brian and I are both small business owners and own companies, maybe the three of us from the board
<.dcleary.>   I'm looking for a trip to the Grand Caymans. Do we have the budget for it?
[.Southwell.]   As soon as PSC makes a donation...
[.Southwell.]   ;)
<.dcleary.>   Geoff - That would be fine by me.
<.prvdam.>   I am a small business owner to - that's why I don't think we should get into this den
<.innov8cs.>   Julian - in the US I can do it all myself if I want, about $200 to an accountant if not
<.dcleary.>   When we are a non-profit, I can see if we can swing some "charitable giving" our way.
<.BrianL.>   Back to letting the committe discover for us.
<.BrianL.>   Who is going to be on it.
<.innov8cs.>   Peter - Here in the US it must be different, every body does this and it's no big deal
[.Southwell.]   I'll donate up to $50 towards the fees.
<.prvdam.>   Geoff - what's the value of such a company outside the US?
[.Southwell.]   A corporation can sue and be sued.
<.dcleary.>   No personal liability if sued.
<.BrianL.>   I wouldn't mind, but am VERY busy for the next month and may not add enough value.
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - right you are, how about us three, and we decide about the outsiders
<.dcleary.>   Sounds good to me.
<.BrianL.>   When should we meet?
<.innov8cs.>   Brian - Then perhaps just David and me, we'll refer to you if we need you
<.BrianL.>   In Grand Cayman?
<.dcleary.>   Tommorow in our Wednesday slot?
<.BrianL.>   Fine.  If we keep it to an hour or under.
<.innov8cs.>   How about outsders?  I thought about Bruce MacIntyre for the business end
[.Southwell.]   Fine by me...
<.BrianL.>   Do we know anyone running a non-profit (do not read No-Profit).
<.jmls.>   nope. We've always run at a loss :)
<.innov8cs.>   David - let's decide off line from now,  and Brian - I don't in the progress world, I do outside
[.Southwell.]   I think we have what we need now.
<.BrianL.>   Doesn't matter which world.
<.jmls.>   ok. good.
<.prvdam.>   Done.
<.BrianL.>   Now, an hour and a half into the first meeting, what is next.
<.dcleary.>   Goodbye?
<.dcleary.>   Lunch?
<.prvdam.>   Dinner is waiting here
<.jmls.>   DINNER
[.Southwell.]   Lunch!
<.BrianL.>   Is the cafeteria that good?
<.prvdam.>   Anyone for breakfast?
<.BrianL.>   I ate mine while talking to you guys
<.dcleary.>   Speaking of which, mine just arived.
<.innov8cs.>   The only other thing I'd like to do is the article?  Should we skip that today?
<.jmls.>   you say potato, Dan says potatoe
[.Southwell.]   Move to adjourn
<.jmls.>   seconded.
[.Southwell.]   All in favor?
<.BrianL.>   Wait.  The article is important./
<.BrianL.>   Nay.
<.innov8cs.>   Nay
<.BrianL.>   Just two minutes.  Promise.
[.Southwell.]   OK.
<.innov8cs.>   Go
<.jmls.>   ok
<.prvdam.>   go
<.BrianL.>   I think that article needs to be less open source and more FFW.
<.BrianL.>   Agreed?
[.Southwell.]   Yep
<.jmls.>   Do we have enough "meat" in FFW ?
<.innov8cs.>   No issue, I liked the idea of the OpenSource as a side bar
<.BrianL.>   Like new features, requests for people
<.BrianL.>   to help
<.BrianL.>   How much time left?
<.BrianL.>   IS that enough Geoff?
<.innov8cs.>   How about talking up the submissions from Per and ISS too.
<.BrianL.>   Yes. That is fine.
<.innov8cs.>   Any other suggestions for the article??  Otherwise that's it.
<.BrianL.>   How about a date for completion of the Article?
<.BrianL.>   30 seconds.
[.Southwell.]   By the 14th?
<.innov8cs.>   I'd like for us to review it by the end of the week, how about Thurs
<.jmls.>   ok
<.BrianL.>   No. Friday.
<.dcleary.>   I need to go. Please email me the transcript.
<.innov8cs.>   14th is too long
*** .dcleary (~dcleary@psc.progress.com). has left channel #FFW
<.jmls.>   ok, then friday.
<.BrianL.>   Friday.
<.innov8cs.>   Fri
<.BrianL.>   Agreed.
<.BrianL.>   Adjournment may commence.
<.prvdam.>   Progressions deadline is late August. 14th sounds good.
<.innov8cs.>   We're still felling our way here, But I think we did well.  Thanks all
[.Southwell.]   See you guys later.  
<.BrianL.>   I'm out.
<.jmls.>   Ok, bye for now.
*** Signoff: .jmls (jmls@host62-172-168-104.btinternet.com). has left IRC [Quit: Leaving]
[.Southwell.]   I guess this is adjourned.